Guest: Jan Masaoka, executive director of the Center for Nonprofit Management
Host: Sean Bailey, Philanthropy-Journal

Part Two

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Gene C. Wenner: Having been involved in executive searches, both as a consultant and as a candidate, I have found that the non-profit board faced with the replacement, or first time hire, of an executive director has no idea of how complicated and time-consuming a search can be. They are not prepared for the onslaught of resumes that any annoucement will produce.
What should a board do first to avoid jumping in to search without knowing what they face?

Jan: You're right, Gene. Many nonprofit boards ARE unprepared for the amount of time (and volunteer board members are ALWAYS short of time) it will take to conduct a search, screen candidates, and negotiate a hire. You refer to "the onslaught of resumes that any announcement will produce." This onslaught is actually more than just a problem of time. A large batch of resumes will often convince a board that they don't have to go out and proactively seek qualified candidates; they may feel that they can just choose from among the applicants. The boards that work with a search consultant or that find ways to make the time available produce better pools of candidates.

What should a board do FIRST? They should make sure they give themselves the appropriate time to do the work. This might mean hiring an interim executive director, having a staff member work as the Acting Executive Director, or hiring a consultant to help them with the time-consuming search.

Adam: Hi, I am a recent graduate of a public relations program and have a degree in psychology. What would be the best step for me to take in order to start a career with a non-profit organization?

Jan: Hi, Adam; I'm delighted that you're interested in a career with a nonprofit organization. As more and more people realize that nonprofit work IS a career, one of the new programs in San Francisco is the Young Nonprofit Professionals Network. This WebTalk is about executive director transitions, but I'm sure you realize that it's rare for someone to start off with a job as executive director.

I don't really think it's so important where you START. It's important what you INCLUDE. For example, if you start with a job in a small agency, you'll have great, broad experience doing everything. Perhaps then your next job should be with a larger organization, where you'll have more specialized responsibilities, but be able to see and experience how larger organizations work. Similarly, with your degree in psychology, you might want to start with a job in, for example, a mental health clinic, but have your next job in an environmental organization or a social action organization. My Dad told me as a child that I shouldn't decide what to be when I grew up ... because my job probably hadn't been invented yet. I think this advice is still good ... even for those of us who are "grown up." The bottom line advice: take a job you really want to have.

Michele Finstad: This is not a question but a confirmation of your comment regarding why EDs leave. I finally had to leave an organization that I co-founded and loved and also of which I was the first ED. Our organization was all volunteer-including my position of ED. I became frustrated with the situation because I was given the position due to my experience level yet I really was not given the authority that went along with this. Also, lack of salary soon took its toll.

Jan: Michele: I'm sorry you felt you had to leave your position. The situation you describe, acting as a first, volunteer ED in an all-volunteer organization, is a special circumstance that we all need to understand more. Many organizations flounder when hiring (even when unpaid) their first executive director. And the nonprofit sector hasn't developed many models for all-volunteer organizations (AVOs). I hope you'll try again in another ED job.

Barbara A. Ellerbrook: Jan: Thank you for your insightful comments about "resigning" ED's. I have "resigned" from two non-profits as the ED based on the very reasons cited in your introduction - those of little information as to the agencies financial standing upon my hiring, and a lack of board support for initiatives I instituted based on the board's "requirements" of me upon my hiring.

Additionally, I have found that too many board members do not view non-profits as businesses, rather as a board member's way of "serving" their community as a volunteer. I have often stated that if a board member ran their own for profit board the way they run non-profit boards they would themselves be dismissed from a for profit board service, or worse be terminated from their own company. I once was told by a board president that if I were employed by his bank I would be a vice-president, however, I could not "run" the non-profit the same way, even though under my leadership the agency had triple growth in the first 18-months of my tenure. What can be done for ED's to protect them against a few board members who want the ED removed for reasons unreleated to the actual work performed, and what type of training is available for prospective board members?

Secondly, one of the unmentioned factors relates to staff circumventing the ED and going directly to the board with complaints - unknown to the ED? How can this be prevented when the board interferes with the ED's authority?

Thank you.

Anne Hilbert: Boy! It sounded like you were privy to the past year at my organization. I was hired two months ago as ED. We are involved in a financial crisis, but one I believe can be allieviated over the next few months. One of the main themes of my interviews with both the Search Committee and the Board was their desire for a "strong leader." After a couple of Board meetings I wonder if they will allow me to be the leader they said they want. They tend to bog down in process, seeking consensus rather than reaching a decision. I have the ability to be a strong leader and make decisions (some perhaps unpopular), but would appreciate any suggestions on how to approach the situation.

Thanks very much.

Jan: Barbara and Anne: wow! both of you seem to be struggling with the very paradoxical board-ED relationship. As you well know, boards want (and need) executive directors to lead and manage the board, but at the same time we as executive directors must take leadership and direction FROM the board. Executive directors are usually seen as "managing down," but there isn't enough discussion about how we can effectively and appropriately "manage up."

If we think about the board-ED relationship like two partners waltzing, we can immediately realize that the couple will do the best if BOTH partners are good dancers. In other words, some of the concerns can be addressed through organizational change, but it may be necessary for one of the partners to change. There are two basic strategies for EDs in your situations: work with the board to help them learn to govern (not manage), and to work with one or two prospective board leaders towards board composition change. You'll probably have to do both at the same time.

Debbie Rice: Jan: I have recently been hired as the ED for a non-profit with about 35 employees and a 1.5 million budget. I will begin late August. The search for a new ED began when the previous ED decided in February not to return from maternity leave. What suggestions can you give me to help make this transition as smooth as possible for both myself and the employees?

Don Heidel: Is there an IRC/WEB chat group for Non-profit Execs? There are days when it would be very cathartic to join an interactive discussion.

Jan: Don, I don't know if a chat group, but it sounds like an interesting idea. We're right now finishing development of a multi-component Executive Transitions program, which would include support mechanisms for executive directors. Maybe this would be one way to do that. Do you or other PJ readers have suggestions on how to make this work successfully?

Karen Beach: In your opening comments, you talked about the development of propective ED's and helping younger nonprofit professionals choose the right career paths so that they can become strong executive directors. What would be your career path or training suggestions for those of us younger folks who may want to move into an executive position one day?

palma: What is the best way to transition your career from the corporate to non-profit sector. I am an interactive media professional with more than 10 years of experience wanting to move into the non-profit sector. Is specific studies in non-profit or development necessary or is there a way to demonstrate transferable skills?

Jan Karen and Palma: I'm very glad to see both of you looking at ED work ... the nonprofit sector needs all the great EDs we can find! (To tell you the truth, we have enough consultants!) I have two pieces of overall advice: a) Choose volunteer activity that complements your work skills development; and b) Focus on hands-on experience.

More on volunteering: it's simply the greatest way to develop skills and contacts, as well as build your own personal vision and style. For example, if your work is in program delivery, join a board where you can be on the finance committee. If your work is in administration, choose volunteer work that involves you in special event fundraising or in community outreach.

More on practical experience: Several years ago I was hiring a development director, and I had several resumes from people with masters degrees in nonprofit management but little experience in fundraising, and other resumes from people with solid backgrounds in fundraising but no graduate work. Which group of resumes do you think was more compelling?

Rick Kienholz: The question regarding a web support group for ED's is a great idea! I might suggest that rather than a web page for this purpose one might think about a news group. My wife subscribes to a news group regarding a medical condition and it is very interactive, informative and helpful. I'm not sure of the mechanics of getting one started but I know someone out there does! Any volunteers?

Ellen Rice: I'm the Unit Manager of a small community Hospital "Not for profit". We are currently involved in 5.5 million dollar expansion of emergency services and radiology. I am looking for donations and or grant information to help me equip my new department. The cost of project is for the building itself, equipment is being budgeted differently and I can already hear administrator backpeddling about cost of the equipment necessary to adequately place my department in a safe net. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Gene C. Wenner: Thanks for your response. The suggestion you made about a board hiring an Interim Director or a consultant to assist them in a combination makes all kinds of sense, but how do boards of directors get to know about these options.

I have written a piece on the subject of Executive Searches that I would be willing to share with you, Jan and perhaps get your response to it.

Thanks for doing this Webchat.

Jan: Gene, please do send me the article you've written on executive searches; include your fax number or address and we'll return the favor with an article on boards.

The question you raise about how boards learn about options is an important one. After all, most board members have little time for their board work, and most (or all!) of their information about their organization or the nonprofit sector may come through their executive director.

This fall we're launching, along with the Volunteer Consulting Group in New York, a free newsletter just for board members. Each issue will have one substantive article (such as on how to seek and choose an Interim Executive Director), and several tips (such as on running effective board meetings, D&O; insurance, etc.). Watch Philanthropy Journal for more information, or check into the Website of the Support Center for Nonprofit Management
And thanks, Gene, for the thanks!

L.K.: In the discussion, the issue of previous financial mismanagement was mentioned. What is your advice for a new Exec. who discovers the financial situation after they start (the situation did not show in the audit), but feels they are getting limited board support for change. (I suspect some of the reason they don't want change is the "image" problem it could create and a general feeling that the previous Exec. was wonderful despite the financial issues.) Thanks!

Jan: L.K.: Thanks for writing ... by the way, are you describing a purely hypothetical situation?! :) Actually, you've identified two issues: addressing the financial situation and obtaining board support for change. In terms of the financial situation, I suggest writing a full report on what you've discovered and the implications for the organizations, and presenting the report at a board meeting. I'd also work with the board president to identify principles that the board would discuss and approve on how to proceed with the financial situation. For example, one principle might be that steps taken should maintain a positive relationship with the former exec, that any steps taken should enhance the organization's image, etc. At the subsequent meeting, the board president could present the plan that the two of you have worked out together for change. (If the board president isn't actively engaged, perhaps the Treasurer might be an appropriate agent for change.) What have you done already? I'd like to hear more about what you're doing, and I imagine other Nonprofit WebTalk readers would, too.

Silke Deeley: As President of a "new" charity, I am looking for ways to raise money for our organization in order to continue to be able to provide education and support to families. Any ideas about getting financial support from business and community?

Debbie Rice: Jan: What are some specific suggestions you have discovered that can help the staff and new ED in an executive transition? Also, your mention of the Executives Transition program is encouraging. Can you give more information?

Gene C. Wenner: The issue of leadership by the ED or the board is getting to be a difficult question in non-profits. It is often a case of a board that doesn't accept its responsibilities (fiscal oversight and fund raising) or takes them too seriously and micro-manages.

What can be done to clarify this issue?

C.K.: I have been the ED of a small nonprofit for just under a year and I'm ready to resign. This is my first directorship and I feel as if I could be directing any nonprofit, and the specific field I'm in (and the expertise for which I was hired) has become almost incidental when compared to the time and energy I spend on organizational management. I imagine this is common among nonprofit managers. Management is not their passion, it's the cause. But the cause gets pushed aside for Board issues, financial issues, personnel issues, etc. Any comments?

Jan: Wait a minute, CK ... don't resign just yet! You MIGHT be right and ED work just isn't for you. In fact, I wish that people with career-long commitments to program work got the salaries and recognition they deserve. At the same time, perhaps you can re-imagine your job not as (boring) administrative work, but as (fulfilling) ENABLING work that allows the volunteer leadership and program staff to do the agency's work in the community. As just one example, teaching can be a satisfying career choice, but so can being a principal.

Barbara A. Ellerbrook: Jan, thank you for your response. A comment: I think that the establishment of some kind of "chat" room for ED is a great idea. This is something that I would certainly participate in, even though, currently, I am not an ED, but plan to get back in fold soon. Like it or not, with all the frustrations of being an ED, it is a career path that I sorely miss. Thanks.

Marie: Any advice for a first-time interim director? Help!
Thanks

Jan: Marie: congrats on being a first-time interim director! I suspect you'll be a very hot property (if you survive this one) as interim execs are more and more in demand. Your job as an interim combines some aspects of organization development consulting, along with management and board development. One thing I learned from a focus group we held in San Francisco of professional interim directors is the importance of establishing a climate of calm, reassurance, competent business management, and confidence about making changes in the future. Because many first time interims are also first time consultants, they (and you) might find it helpful to work with a nonprofit consultant for advice on managing the relationship. As part of our Executive Transitions program, we plan to develop some articles and worksheets for interims ... as your thoughts develop would you please share them with us?

Jan: Debbie: thanks for your response. Did you ever read "Anna Karenina" by Tolstoy? In it he says (something like): "All happy families are the same, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." I think that nonprofits are the opposite! All failing nonprofits seem the same, but each successful one is successful in a unique way. I guess what I'm saying is that being a successful new exec brings so many factors into play that it's hard to give generic, useful advice. Tom Adams and the national Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation have written an article on some of the strategies that new execs have taken. Send your fax number or address to me and I'll send you the article. (My phone is (415) 541-9000; fax is (415) 541-7708; email is supportcenter@supportcenter.org.

Stacey O.: Jan, thank you for this informative webchat session this month. I work at a small history museum and the board has asked me to replace our director who will be retiring in 1-2 years. As an interim step, they are thinking about advancing me to the position of Assistant Director. My sense is that our current director has mixed feelings about this and I feel some trepidation in working with her during this period of transition. Do you have any advice on how the board, the director and I should handle this transition? I want to advance my managerial skills, etc., while minimizing potential conflict with the current director. Any advice would be appreciated!

Jan: Congratulations, Stacey O., it sounds like you're doing a great job and the board recognizes it, and is planning for the current director's retirement (it's to her credit, by the way, that the board knows your abilities). I'm sure the current director has mixed feelings about leaving, and would have mixed feelings about ANYONE coming in on her heels. It might be a good idea to work out a six-step plan for the next 18 months, with identified responsibilities in each step that you would be taking over, and identified responsibilities you would be learning. This transition period won't be easy for either of you . . . Just today we held a lunch for women executive directors, and one of the participants went through a three-year transition similar to the one you're describing. She felt it went really well; I'm telling you this so you know it CAN go well, even though it will take better-than-just-good communication and honesty between the two of you.

Patricia Emerson: Recently I began a campaign with other webbies to petition the Govt. to establish mandatory sentencing laws for child molesters. We have named our group Child Safety Net. We have come very far in our research on how to gain this. But we would like to establish this group as Non Profit,so after we achieve our initial goal we can establish a foundation for victim recovery.Can anyone tell me how to go about establishing Non Profit Status?

Gene C. Wenner: (to Patricia Emerson) Establishing a non-profit is related more to state laws than IRS, although they give the final approval. There are lawyers that understand non-profit law (not all lawyers do) and should be involved from the beginning in filing the Articles of Incorporation through the development of the By-laws.

Good luck.

Without legal assistance you can get in a lot of difficulty that will delay your filing and give you serious problems later.

Renee Beauvais: In response to Patricia Emerson's question:
The best way to protect yourself is to be informed. You do not need a lawyer to form a non-profit corporation. You can do it yourself without difficulty or any delay in your filing. I suggest you go to the library and look at (or buy) the most recent copy of "How to form a Nonprofit Corporation" published by Nolo Press (ISBN 0-87337-33-2.) It's written by a lawyer and is very informative. It also provides sample articles and bylaws.

Mike Allison, for Jan: To Patricia Emerson, and in agreement with both of the previous two replies; it IS important which state you plan to incorporate in and the assistance of a lawyer CAN be very helpful. It is not necessary to use a lawyer, but I would recommend it if you can find one with the appropriate experience in your price range. In many cities around the country there are services to support existing and new nonprofit organizations, and you may find a helpful resource there. Good luck!

(Mike Allison is responding for Jan Masaoka while she is on vacation. Mike is Associate Director at the Support Center for Nonprofit Management.)

Susan Rice: Regarding the question and responses about forming a nonprofit, the reason I recommend consulting a lawyer is that every state has different laws, and the laws keep changing. There are lawyers and attorneys who care a lot about struggling nonprofits and will do the work for a very reduced fee. Another point: Some communities have groups that have not yet become 501(c)3's and want to receive donations. These communities have a collaborative nonprofit that allows the groups to become part of them -- a project of the organization as it were, thus providing advice and counsel on getting going as well as a place for donors to receive tax deductions when giving a donation. In Los Angeles, such a group is Community Partners. A good place to start in finding out if such a group exists in your community is your local community foundation.

Gene C. Wenner: I want to raise another issue about the search process. There seems to be an attitude prevailing with boards that candidates are a "dime a dozen" and they often ignore the initial mailings sent them. It is frustrating for candidates not to get any response from their mailing. In many instances the notice does not include a telephone number or a name of an individual.

What have you found to be helpful to boards in avoiding these problems?

Mike, for Jan: To Gene regarding lack of board response to candidate mailings ... to be honest, I think this is a situation that is not likely to change. Some people send thank you notes and others never get around to it. The same is true with Boards searching for candidates. However I agree that the situation is frustrating and that boards should be aware that it is a simple, and required, act of courtesy to respond to letters from candidates. What helps boards most is to have someone designated to respond to all letters, especially those which "don't make the cut." A simple "We acknowledge receipt of your letter" is sufficient.

Chris B.: Jan, thank you for the interesting and helpful discussion regarding ED transitions. I am currently a Resource Development Manager for a small, affordable housing non-profit in Oakland, CA. My responsibilities, similar to most small CDCs, are many and diverse. Having spent the last nine years working for various housing organizations, I only recently completed my BA. Yet, eventually I would like to become an ED for a CDC or builder working on sustainable development. I feel I am ready to move on, but given my age (28) and lack of an advanced degree, I am not sure what strategy to take. My question to you is, "Can you recommend any classes, seminars, or career development services in the San Francisco Bay Area for someone in their late twenties with aspirations to become an ED and in need of direction and advanced training?"

Mike, for Jan: To Chris B. ... There are several top-notch community development corporations in the Bay Area. One thing I suggest is doing some informational interviewing with Executive Directors: ask them what they think is necessary in terms of preparing for the positions they hold and what classes, etc., might be helpful. Also, the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation has begun working on the issue of developing the next generation of Executive Directors for CDCs in their network across the country. A man who has been very involved with this effort is Tom Adams, Adams and Associates. His phone number is 301-847-0914 and I believe he would welcome a call from you. Good luck to you!

Harry Myer: I am one of four candidates for ED with a 1.5mil treatment facility. The prior ED left under a cloud, and in the last several months the board has made some management changes which seem to be OK. Given the grief of the loss and other issues, I am concerned the board does not have a commitment to grow the services, that they are not clear about the mission, and that they will have difficulty trusting the new ED. I would like the position, and do not need to enter into a political struggle to grow the service. Granted there will always be some of that. I'm writing questions which I intend to ask, most have to do with their ability to be supportive and to grow. I would like a mentor, where would I find one? What questions might be most helpful for me to ask? Thanks for the help.

Mike, for Jan: To Harry Myer ... You ask two questions. The first is how to deal with a board which has been recently burned. In talking with a number of people who have served as interim executive directors, it is clear that one function an interim often serves is to help a board through the transition from the "old" to the "new." When these transitions have been successful, the new permanent executive director can come in with full energy for the future. I expect that if you get this job you will have to play both the role noted here, as well as take the helm in leading the organization toward its future. Give board members an opportunity to talk about the experience and help them identify what they've learned, and help them be explicit about any exaggerated fears regarding the new exec. I think it will help to conceive of the job as having an initial transition period (where you want to be patient and talking with board members) which should last no more than six months. This transition is not likely to be an unadulterated honeymoon!

The second question you ask is about finding a mentor. I have found that other people in my business, whom I respect and/or others connect me with, are the best source for helpful guidance. I have two or three people I look to for mentor-like help. However, few people I know have a single, profound, career-long mentor relationship. Be open to getting help/advice/counsel from three or four people and see what kind of relationships develop.

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